lol, i didn't know this, been studying Japanese for more than 2 years
Jesse Armand
6 years ago
Wow, okay. I didn't really notice know how much of those particles are dropped.
What about other particles, に、を、の、で、へ and double particles such as のは、のが、のを、ので、のに. Also, I've never used question mark or exclamation mark, ever since I learned Japanese.
Nicolo
6 years ago
Hi yuta, nice video here.
As far As you know, regarding the particles use, are there differences between japanese regions? I mean, you use and teach the Tokyo ''dialect'' right?
I suppose in the spoken Japanese the differences can be pretty high…
Thank you, Nicolò
Yes, different regions may different particles. However, Tokyo 'dialect' is also considered standard especially in keigo Japanese. (TV announcers across the nation basically speak this 'dialect').
If anything you want to sound natural when learning a language and books are most of the time super proper which doesn't help when trying to learn any language thank you for the lesson I'll try to catch the next paid lessons I just missed thanks again!!
I've actually noticed these differences from the sentence patterns real Japanese people write in so I'm so used to seeing it the "real" way. So I tend to do it that way to sound less boring.
Deanna
6 years ago
So if I'm talking with a friend I can drop the particles but what if I'm talking to a stranger and want to be polite? Would I still drop particles without being rude? Is keigo in written Japanese different from keigo in spoken Japanese as well?
The interesting thing about this is, at least where I'm from, what they teach you to write is also what they teach you to speak in school, what they consider to be 'proper' English. But what you learn to speak among your peers might sound different. Peers do not generally care as much if you say things like 'don't, won't ya'll', but you could still just as easily say 'do not, would not, you all' as you are taught to write it. It is kind of fun having the differences because it allows people to show something about themselves based on the way they chose to speak.
These are things I focus on when I am writing dialogue for one of my characters. I have one character who tends to speak casually to pretty much everyone, and uses a lot of slang because he's young, openly friendly, and grew up in a tough place. Another doesn't say a lot, but speaks clearly, though being 'proper' in his speech is not a major concern of his. And the thrid character out of the group is a soft spoken sweet-heart who tends to speak in a very proper way, not because he is stuck up, but because he was influenced a lot by literature, and some one who moved in upper circles. A fourth character I have goes even further and speaks in a very old fashion manner, /very/ proper.
Just with changes in how I use the way a character speaks can say a lot about them, from not bothering to pay much attention to educated 'proper' speaking, to sounding like they are from a period since passed.
Thank you for the lesson, Yutaa. I can not speak Japanese very well, and I need to learn a lot more words, but after listening to it spoken in shows and anime for so long, you do start to get an ear for what sounds odd between the written and the spoken forms, and while I had not thought much about it, you really don't hear people using particles nearly as often in speaking, even when listening to a more formal or polite sounding character.
Koala
6 years ago
That's very interesting, and also a bit confusing. How do I know what particles to drop and when? Does more particles equal more formality? Can に and で be dropped too?
I've heard that there is no absolute word order for Japanese, only a preferred order. Is that true? And if it is, then if someone deviated from the preferred order and dropped particles, how would I know which word played which role?
It's not very efficient to try to memorise all the rules as to when or when to drop particles. I could potentially give you general guidelines, but the best way of learning this kind of stuff is from examples. As for the word order, you can understand everything from the context. It's when the context isn't enough that you use particles.
That comment right there is super helpful. And thanks so much for this lesson. My biggest frustration with learning Japanese is that what I hear does not at all match textbook Japanese!
Andrew Caldwell
6 years ago
Good pointer, I do think I sound like a text book sometimes and people always give me that second glance like I said something weird when I speak.
How do you know when to drop particles and when not to drop them? Is there a general rule I can follow until I get the hang of it, or is it something that I need to pick up purely by listening to conversation?
Thanks so much,
Hal.
名無し
6 years ago
Perhaps interesting to mention would be odd crossovers between written and spoken language, such as online text chats. I tend to just pretend I'm speaking what I type, and most of my Japanese friends seem to do the same, but there have been times when someone on hellotalk would correct a particle I left out on purpose which always makes it difficult to tell if I left something out incorrectly or if they're expecting me to use more proper language.
That's a very tricky situation because when people try to teach you their language, they suddenly start teaching you written language. I think the average Japanese teachers correct you when you drop particles even if they do the same when they speak Japanese. The Japanese may talk the way they would never talk to their fellow Japanese people when they talk to foreigners.
Krystal L
6 years ago
Thank you! I always look forward to your lessons!
James
6 years ago
Great lesson! Thank you so much.
LEN
6 years ago
Much in the same way people do when speaking English……But is it always proper to do so?
Cosmo
6 years ago
I almost always drop particles, I kind of feel like it is a bad habit but at the same time sometimes it sounds more natural than using the particle.
I am excited to watch this video and see what you have to say about it.
Thanks Yuta!
This video is really cool and interesting. Yes, you are correct, in English, it is also different when it is spoken than it is written. Thank you for this lesson Yuta and by the way, I am currently using the Hellotalk app and I am hoping someone's going to teach me more spoken Japanese like you. I'll be waiting for more lessons. Thanks
Romeo
6 years ago
Is using a subject, object, and a verb without particles mostly correct for conversations? Would the sentence "よくワンパンマンよむ?" be correct?
Thanks for the video, Yuta! It's very interesting.
I want to drop particles now when I speak but I'm sure my Japanese teacher won't appreciate that haha
Nice lesson Yuta.
In Genki's defence though I must say that leaving out particles in colloquial speech is covered in the beginning of the second book, I think in chapter 14 or 15.
This is so helpful, it's frustrating when you sound so awkward in an actual conversation because textbooks focus so hard on written form.
lol, i didn't know this, been studying Japanese for more than 2 years
Wow, okay. I didn't really notice know how much of those particles are dropped.
What about other particles, に、を、の、で、へ and double particles such as のは、のが、のを、ので、のに. Also, I've never used question mark or exclamation mark, ever since I learned Japanese.
Hi yuta, nice video here.
As far As you know, regarding the particles use, are there differences between japanese regions? I mean, you use and teach the Tokyo ''dialect'' right?
I suppose in the spoken Japanese the differences can be pretty high…
Thank you, Nicolò
Yes, different regions may different particles. However, Tokyo 'dialect' is also considered standard especially in keigo Japanese. (TV announcers across the nation basically speak this 'dialect').
If anything you want to sound natural when learning a language and books are most of the time super proper which doesn't help when trying to learn any language thank you for the lesson I'll try to catch the next paid lessons I just missed thanks again!!
I've actually noticed these differences from the sentence patterns real Japanese people write in so I'm so used to seeing it the "real" way. So I tend to do it that way to sound less boring.
So if I'm talking with a friend I can drop the particles but what if I'm talking to a stranger and want to be polite? Would I still drop particles without being rude? Is keigo in written Japanese different from keigo in spoken Japanese as well?
very good lesson–thanks!
The interesting thing about this is, at least where I'm from, what they teach you to write is also what they teach you to speak in school, what they consider to be 'proper' English. But what you learn to speak among your peers might sound different. Peers do not generally care as much if you say things like 'don't, won't ya'll', but you could still just as easily say 'do not, would not, you all' as you are taught to write it. It is kind of fun having the differences because it allows people to show something about themselves based on the way they chose to speak.
These are things I focus on when I am writing dialogue for one of my characters. I have one character who tends to speak casually to pretty much everyone, and uses a lot of slang because he's young, openly friendly, and grew up in a tough place. Another doesn't say a lot, but speaks clearly, though being 'proper' in his speech is not a major concern of his. And the thrid character out of the group is a soft spoken sweet-heart who tends to speak in a very proper way, not because he is stuck up, but because he was influenced a lot by literature, and some one who moved in upper circles. A fourth character I have goes even further and speaks in a very old fashion manner, /very/ proper.
Just with changes in how I use the way a character speaks can say a lot about them, from not bothering to pay much attention to educated 'proper' speaking, to sounding like they are from a period since passed.
Thank you for the lesson, Yutaa. I can not speak Japanese very well, and I need to learn a lot more words, but after listening to it spoken in shows and anime for so long, you do start to get an ear for what sounds odd between the written and the spoken forms, and while I had not thought much about it, you really don't hear people using particles nearly as often in speaking, even when listening to a more formal or polite sounding character.
That's very interesting, and also a bit confusing. How do I know what particles to drop and when? Does more particles equal more formality? Can に and で be dropped too?
I've heard that there is no absolute word order for Japanese, only a preferred order. Is that true? And if it is, then if someone deviated from the preferred order and dropped particles, how would I know which word played which role?
It's not very efficient to try to memorise all the rules as to when or when to drop particles. I could potentially give you general guidelines, but the best way of learning this kind of stuff is from examples. As for the word order, you can understand everything from the context. It's when the context isn't enough that you use particles.
That comment right there is super helpful. And thanks so much for this lesson. My biggest frustration with learning Japanese is that what I hear does not at all match textbook Japanese!
Good pointer, I do think I sound like a text book sometimes and people always give me that second glance like I said something weird when I speak.
Which level is this aimed for? It's been over a year since I selected a level. But this feels a bit too easy for me.
i guess it happens the same in every language textbooks are very formal
So nice Tks a lot sensei! Cya
How do you know when to drop particles and when not to drop them? Is there a general rule I can follow until I get the hang of it, or is it something that I need to pick up purely by listening to conversation?
Thanks so much,
Hal.
Perhaps interesting to mention would be odd crossovers between written and spoken language, such as online text chats. I tend to just pretend I'm speaking what I type, and most of my Japanese friends seem to do the same, but there have been times when someone on hellotalk would correct a particle I left out on purpose which always makes it difficult to tell if I left something out incorrectly or if they're expecting me to use more proper language.
That's a very tricky situation because when people try to teach you their language, they suddenly start teaching you written language. I think the average Japanese teachers correct you when you drop particles even if they do the same when they speak Japanese. The Japanese may talk the way they would never talk to their fellow Japanese people when they talk to foreigners.
Thank you! I always look forward to your lessons!
Great lesson! Thank you so much.
Much in the same way people do when speaking English……But is it always proper to do so?
I almost always drop particles, I kind of feel like it is a bad habit but at the same time sometimes it sounds more natural than using the particle.
I am excited to watch this video and see what you have to say about it.
Thanks Yuta!
JWY – Dropping Particles
This video is really cool and interesting. Yes, you are correct, in English, it is also different when it is spoken than it is written. Thank you for this lesson Yuta and by the way, I am currently using the Hellotalk app and I am hoping someone's going to teach me more spoken Japanese like you. I'll be waiting for more lessons. Thanks
Is using a subject, object, and a verb without particles mostly correct for conversations? Would the sentence "よくワンパンマンよむ?" be correct?
Yes, that's correct.
Yes, that would be correct.
Thanks for the video, Yuta! It's very interesting.
I want to drop particles now when I speak but I'm sure my Japanese teacher won't appreciate that haha
Shhh, don't tell your teacher.
Nice lesson Yuta.
In Genki's defence though I must say that leaving out particles in colloquial speech is covered in the beginning of the second book, I think in chapter 14 or 15.
Genki II teaches you casual speech, but it doesn't fully explain colloquial grammar.