This may sound weird but as a native Japanese speaker that's learned English, did you find the order in which certain parts of a sentence throw you off at all?
When watching this lesson it got me wondering how English speakers adjust to Japanese in the same fashion. For example, you showed, "Yoku sakana taberu?" in your video. An English speaker would ask, "Do you eat fish often?" So in this case the verb in Japanese is at the end of the sentence, whereas it's in the middle in English.
I feel like you would have to think a couple steps ahead if Japanese isn't your native language, and it would just seem hard to have casual conversations that sounded entirely natural and free flowing.
You can say in English "Do you often eat fish?" but it's quite stiff. I think the easiest way of getting around this is just adjusting everything so that only the verb is in a different place. Personally I'd want to say something like 魚よく食べるの？ here.
Marta
6 years ago
So I'm wondering, in a book or manga written in Japanese, will they use written or spoken Japanese for dialogue?
Thanks for the lesson. Stay healthy!
God Bless,
Flora
Joseph Webber
6 years ago
If written and spoken Japanese differ so greatly because of added particles, why would textbooks not have two versions of the same sentence, one for writing and one for speaking, and explain why any particles are necessary in the written version? This seems like it would be much more useful than teaching just written Japanese.
A sentence in a textbook usually exists to explain a specific concept, rather than showing you what Japanese looks like normally. There's no point in telling a beginner who is just learning how to use particles that you can sometimes drop them and how to drop them, they're just going to get confused.
Ashurii
6 years ago
This was more then interesting, it was also informative. Since I am a beginner to learning Japanese, the particles were a huge confusion for me. I would have to agree, if I am speaking that sentence, WA would role off the tounge better then GA. And even more so, not having any particles, makes the sentence faster. I like how Japanese like to get to the point in their language. It reminds me of English in many ways. Back in the 1800's, English speakers would take forever to communicate. It was seen as sophistication if you used very large complex words, and people had the time to listen to all that you had to say back then. Today, we live much faster paced lifestyles, and we just don't have the time for conversation. This is why the English language was condensed, and we now use simpler words and fewer words to make our points. And in most modern times of today, teenagers have condensed it further, to where they now speak in abbreviations in text, I nicknamed it, speaking in code. I swear its going to get to the point where we won't speak anymore, we will just nod at each other lol.
As ever, a clear and interesting lesson. One thing that always surprises me is that the written (essay style) example uses 'da' rather than 'desu'. Text books introduce 'da' as more casual than 'desu', but when it comes to essays, etc., it's 'da' that's used, along with all the particles. I wonder why?
I wouldn't say "da" is "casual". It's not just keigo or polite speech. When you use desu in your essay, it sounds softer than using "da" and somewhat conversational. "Da" is more literally and formal.
Christopher
6 years ago
書きの日本語で文章を出るのは自然ですか？
Caleb
6 years ago
Hey, everyone!
I was wondering if you were to be giving a presentation how would you go about your particles? I have to do a presentation with a powerpoint so would I have particles on the powerpoint but not say particles or just keep the particles?
Thanks in advanced!
またね
bara
6 years ago
Thanks for the video.
This is really a huge problem for us learning Japanese in Japan, what is being taught in a language school and what is being used outside text environment is different and very confusing to fresh learners who want to practice outside the class room, and as you said of course Japanese people will understand us but it sounds weird and takes a lot of time just to explain something simple,
And not to mention that during normal conversation, grammar (in most cases) is thrown right out the window which was one of the things that really took me off guard.
This takes me to the real problem am having right now is short explanation, is there a guide line to follow or some tips? if so please share
Thank you for your time.
mia
6 years ago
Why do textbooks teach languages this way? Most language learners' goals are to speak a language well first. Shouldn't the correct written ways come later? Or at least, shouldn't the textbooks show their written forms and their spoken forms at the same time?
One of the reasons why textbooks teach you artificial language is that they need to come up with logical and coherent grammatical explanations. But the problem is languages are never completely logical. Another reason is that textbooks are written, not spoken. So naturally, textbooks have biases against spoken language because what seems correct when it's spoken doesn't always seem correct when it's written.
Very useful thanks! I'm having a hard time trying to remember when to use which particle whenever I speak, which slows me down an affects confidence. Genki is a great text book, but it's good to know that in real life you don't need follow it strictly.
DJ halla
6 years ago
you could also recommend crunchyroll they have japanese show series I learned to speak english by watching cartoons like scooby doo, flintstones and top cat XD so it could work for japanese as well im sure
Iriasu
6 years ago
That's an interesting topic for a video. However, I disagree with the whole idea. What I find frustrating many times on internet when learning Japanese, everyone is like "I can teach real Japanese and not these textbook ones", "The textbook japanese sound so unnatural, but I know a way on how to speak real Japanese" and so on. I hate that. What everyone needs to understand is that when we are talking about a beginner's book, such as Genki, they have to stick to the grammar rules in order for learner's to learn the grammar better. But after they have reached a certain level, are they ready to learn to break those rules and speak even more naturally. Otherwise, it would lead to learners into confusion and give up this language.
The reason that I disagree with you is that those grammar rules can sometimes be artificial because grammar is just a way of explaining languages and languages are often not completely logical. Language learners are completely capable of learning language from natural speech and if you strive to sound natural when you speak a second language, you are better of learning natural language from the beginning. I'm speaking from my experience.
Also, we don't actually "break rules". Rules that textbooks talk about are just simplified for learners. And it's totally normal that spoken grammar is slightly different from written grammar.
Jev
6 years ago
thanks. this will be very useful when I return to japan
パトリス
6 years ago
ありがとうございます、ゆた先生。
とても面白かったですよ。
Riz Campos
6 years ago
Hi Yuta, great lesson, Thanx. I am really trying to learn. and you teach great, love the no glasses look. NICE
Álvaro
5 years ago
When I first came to the U.S. the immigration officer asked me "Where you going?". He had to repeat it three times before I understood it, because in school I had been taught "Where are you going to?". Perhaps the difference between spoken and written language is more stark in Japanese, but it definitely happens in English too. My native tongue is Spanish, and I think the differences in that language are minimal.
Ba Eitoku
5 years ago
Yuta sensei, thank you for your helpful and interesting lessons I never find in text books. Dropping particles sound more natural and easier than using them.
どもありがとうございます
Ann-Kathrin
5 years ago
Is it always like that in every text book!
Also in my french textbook in school but I first really noticed after some wxchange studenst qas in my class. It is so frustrating!
Thanks Yuta it is so helpful. All your lessons!
This may sound weird but as a native Japanese speaker that's learned English, did you find the order in which certain parts of a sentence throw you off at all?
When watching this lesson it got me wondering how English speakers adjust to Japanese in the same fashion. For example, you showed, "Yoku sakana taberu?" in your video. An English speaker would ask, "Do you eat fish often?" So in this case the verb in Japanese is at the end of the sentence, whereas it's in the middle in English.
I feel like you would have to think a couple steps ahead if Japanese isn't your native language, and it would just seem hard to have casual conversations that sounded entirely natural and free flowing.
You can say in English "Do you often eat fish?" but it's quite stiff. I think the easiest way of getting around this is just adjusting everything so that only the verb is in a different place. Personally I'd want to say something like 魚よく食べるの？ here.
So I'm wondering, in a book or manga written in Japanese, will they use written or spoken Japanese for dialogue?
Spoken 🙂
Thanks for the lesson. Stay healthy!
God Bless,
Flora
If written and spoken Japanese differ so greatly because of added particles, why would textbooks not have two versions of the same sentence, one for writing and one for speaking, and explain why any particles are necessary in the written version? This seems like it would be much more useful than teaching just written Japanese.
A sentence in a textbook usually exists to explain a specific concept, rather than showing you what Japanese looks like normally. There's no point in telling a beginner who is just learning how to use particles that you can sometimes drop them and how to drop them, they're just going to get confused.
This was more then interesting, it was also informative. Since I am a beginner to learning Japanese, the particles were a huge confusion for me. I would have to agree, if I am speaking that sentence, WA would role off the tounge better then GA. And even more so, not having any particles, makes the sentence faster. I like how Japanese like to get to the point in their language. It reminds me of English in many ways. Back in the 1800's, English speakers would take forever to communicate. It was seen as sophistication if you used very large complex words, and people had the time to listen to all that you had to say back then. Today, we live much faster paced lifestyles, and we just don't have the time for conversation. This is why the English language was condensed, and we now use simpler words and fewer words to make our points. And in most modern times of today, teenagers have condensed it further, to where they now speak in abbreviations in text, I nicknamed it, speaking in code. I swear its going to get to the point where we won't speak anymore, we will just nod at each other lol.
As ever, a clear and interesting lesson. One thing that always surprises me is that the written (essay style) example uses 'da' rather than 'desu'. Text books introduce 'da' as more casual than 'desu', but when it comes to essays, etc., it's 'da' that's used, along with all the particles. I wonder why?
I wouldn't say "da" is "casual". It's not just keigo or polite speech. When you use desu in your essay, it sounds softer than using "da" and somewhat conversational. "Da" is more literally and formal.
書きの日本語で文章を出るのは自然ですか？
Hey, everyone!
I was wondering if you were to be giving a presentation how would you go about your particles? I have to do a presentation with a powerpoint so would I have particles on the powerpoint but not say particles or just keep the particles?
Thanks in advanced!
またね
Thanks for the video.
This is really a huge problem for us learning Japanese in Japan, what is being taught in a language school and what is being used outside text environment is different and very confusing to fresh learners who want to practice outside the class room, and as you said of course Japanese people will understand us but it sounds weird and takes a lot of time just to explain something simple,
And not to mention that during normal conversation, grammar (in most cases) is thrown right out the window which was one of the things that really took me off guard.
This takes me to the real problem am having right now is short explanation, is there a guide line to follow or some tips? if so please share
Thank you for your time.
Why do textbooks teach languages this way? Most language learners' goals are to speak a language well first. Shouldn't the correct written ways come later? Or at least, shouldn't the textbooks show their written forms and their spoken forms at the same time?
One of the reasons why textbooks teach you artificial language is that they need to come up with logical and coherent grammatical explanations. But the problem is languages are never completely logical. Another reason is that textbooks are written, not spoken. So naturally, textbooks have biases against spoken language because what seems correct when it's spoken doesn't always seem correct when it's written.
This was very helpful.
Very useful thanks! I'm having a hard time trying to remember when to use which particle whenever I speak, which slows me down an affects confidence. Genki is a great text book, but it's good to know that in real life you don't need follow it strictly.
you could also recommend crunchyroll they have japanese show series I learned to speak english by watching cartoons like scooby doo, flintstones and top cat XD so it could work for japanese as well im sure
That's an interesting topic for a video. However, I disagree with the whole idea. What I find frustrating many times on internet when learning Japanese, everyone is like "I can teach real Japanese and not these textbook ones", "The textbook japanese sound so unnatural, but I know a way on how to speak real Japanese" and so on. I hate that. What everyone needs to understand is that when we are talking about a beginner's book, such as Genki, they have to stick to the grammar rules in order for learner's to learn the grammar better. But after they have reached a certain level, are they ready to learn to break those rules and speak even more naturally. Otherwise, it would lead to learners into confusion and give up this language.
The reason that I disagree with you is that those grammar rules can sometimes be artificial because grammar is just a way of explaining languages and languages are often not completely logical. Language learners are completely capable of learning language from natural speech and if you strive to sound natural when you speak a second language, you are better of learning natural language from the beginning. I'm speaking from my experience.
Also, we don't actually "break rules". Rules that textbooks talk about are just simplified for learners. And it's totally normal that spoken grammar is slightly different from written grammar.
thanks. this will be very useful when I return to japan
ありがとうございます、ゆた先生。
とても面白かったですよ。
Hi Yuta, great lesson, Thanx. I am really trying to learn. and you teach great, love the no glasses look. NICE
When I first came to the U.S. the immigration officer asked me "Where you going?". He had to repeat it three times before I understood it, because in school I had been taught "Where are you going to?". Perhaps the difference between spoken and written language is more stark in Japanese, but it definitely happens in English too. My native tongue is Spanish, and I think the differences in that language are minimal.
Yuta sensei, thank you for your helpful and interesting lessons I never find in text books. Dropping particles sound more natural and easier than using them.
どもありがとうございます
Is it always like that in every text book!
Also in my french textbook in school but I first really noticed after some wxchange studenst qas in my class. It is so frustrating!
Thanks Yuta it is so helpful. All your lessons!